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	<title>Comments on: Edifice Complex: An Unhealthy Obsession</title>
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	<description>Exploring the freedom &#38; simplicity of relational Christianity</description>
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		<title>By: Darrell</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2007/05/16/edifice-complex-an-unhealthy-obsession/comment-page-1/#comment-28249</link>
		<dc:creator>Darrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s a statistical fact that the vast majority of what&#039;s handed over to religious organizations by way of tithes and offerings is consumed by the costs associated with the facility, which includes the staffing salaries and maintenance costs.

With all the talk we hear about tithing, Malachi 3, et al, one would think that modern church organizations would actually be consistent with the Bible they claim as their source for understanding God&#039;s priorities.

The sad fact in all this is that most ignore how the Old Testament system of the tithe went ONLY for the purpose of meeting needs of five classes of people; orphans, widows, strangers, Levites and priests. None of the tithe went for the upkeep of the temple structure or for synagogues, conrary to popular belief among the masses of professing believers who hardly ever dust off their Bibles if they dare to read it for themselves.

Although believers have the right to possess a building in common, the most common error is in the priorities in the giving of those people who attend and support the organization. The New Testament is filled with examples of believer&#039;s giving used almost exclusively for the purpose of meeting needs of people, never for buildings. The example of the first century church should serve as a light to believers today. Instead, most practice a paradigm handed down through the ages by an inferior and anti-scriptural, religious system that has been in practice for 1700 years of human history.

What so many professing believers miss when handing over the primary, largest portion of their giving to their church organization is that they&#039;re basically lavishing their own giving right back upon themselves by way of direct benefit from the facility, its people and the programs they support with their tithes and offerings. That&#039;s not giving at all. It&#039;s membership dues.

Ah, but we&#039;re bound to hear the retort that most church organizations have benevolent outreaches, etc., and that they serve a benevolent purpose to believers and communities. Well, God was never interested in partial obedience to His commands and the examples He set forth in His written word., as the man found out whose intentions were good, who reached out and caught the Ark before it fell off the cart, and yet was struck dead for his act originating from good intentions.

God&#039;s demands for our obedience can&#039;t be convoluted with good intentions. So long as a group supports their facility and its staffing as a secondary priority in relation to our first priority toward one another and the unbelievers in their respective communities, then we all have the freedom to support such things.

An additional, negative note in relation to the topic of religious facilities, enjoyment of an edifice complex at the expense of intimacy seems to be a worthwhile sacrifice in the minds and hearts of many professing believers.

What a tragedy indeed.

Darrell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a statistical fact that the vast majority of what&#8217;s handed over to religious organizations by way of tithes and offerings is consumed by the costs associated with the facility, which includes the staffing salaries and maintenance costs.</p>
<p>With all the talk we hear about tithing, Malachi 3, et al, one would think that modern church organizations would actually be consistent with the Bible they claim as their source for understanding God&#8217;s priorities.</p>
<p>The sad fact in all this is that most ignore how the Old Testament system of the tithe went ONLY for the purpose of meeting needs of five classes of people; orphans, widows, strangers, Levites and priests. None of the tithe went for the upkeep of the temple structure or for synagogues, conrary to popular belief among the masses of professing believers who hardly ever dust off their Bibles if they dare to read it for themselves.</p>
<p>Although believers have the right to possess a building in common, the most common error is in the priorities in the giving of those people who attend and support the organization. The New Testament is filled with examples of believer&#8217;s giving used almost exclusively for the purpose of meeting needs of people, never for buildings. The example of the first century church should serve as a light to believers today. Instead, most practice a paradigm handed down through the ages by an inferior and anti-scriptural, religious system that has been in practice for 1700 years of human history.</p>
<p>What so many professing believers miss when handing over the primary, largest portion of their giving to their church organization is that they&#8217;re basically lavishing their own giving right back upon themselves by way of direct benefit from the facility, its people and the programs they support with their tithes and offerings. That&#8217;s not giving at all. It&#8217;s membership dues.</p>
<p>Ah, but we&#8217;re bound to hear the retort that most church organizations have benevolent outreaches, etc., and that they serve a benevolent purpose to believers and communities. Well, God was never interested in partial obedience to His commands and the examples He set forth in His written word., as the man found out whose intentions were good, who reached out and caught the Ark before it fell off the cart, and yet was struck dead for his act originating from good intentions.</p>
<p>God&#8217;s demands for our obedience can&#8217;t be convoluted with good intentions. So long as a group supports their facility and its staffing as a secondary priority in relation to our first priority toward one another and the unbelievers in their respective communities, then we all have the freedom to support such things.</p>
<p>An additional, negative note in relation to the topic of religious facilities, enjoyment of an edifice complex at the expense of intimacy seems to be a worthwhile sacrifice in the minds and hearts of many professing believers.</p>
<p>What a tragedy indeed.</p>
<p>Darrell</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2007/05/16/edifice-complex-an-unhealthy-obsession/comment-page-1/#comment-3287</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 17:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=48#comment-3287</guid>
		<description>Absolutely!  Great lesson from the Lord to you and to us!  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely!  Great lesson from the Lord to you and to us!  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2007/05/16/edifice-complex-an-unhealthy-obsession/comment-page-1/#comment-3285</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 16:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As I got up from posting my comment my son came up to me and said, &quot;Mom, I need a new Bible case.&quot;  I just stood there and looked at him.

I said, &quot;You don&#039;t NEED a new Bible case.  You want one.  You NEED a Bible, and you have one.&quot;  

Maybe I&#039;m reaching here, but is this exactly what we have been discussing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I got up from posting my comment my son came up to me and said, &#8220;Mom, I need a new Bible case.&#8221;  I just stood there and looked at him.</p>
<p>I said, &#8220;You don&#8217;t NEED a new Bible case.  You want one.  You NEED a Bible, and you have one.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m reaching here, but is this exactly what we have been discussing?</p>
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		<title>By: Lynn</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2007/05/16/edifice-complex-an-unhealthy-obsession/comment-page-1/#comment-3284</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 16:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=48#comment-3284</guid>
		<description>About buildings being a necessity, I guess I was thinking about when it rains...:)  I haven&#039;t thought about it the way you put it.  It does seem wasteful to have such large buildings/complexes that aren&#039;t being used.  However, my mega church back home (yes, I&#039;m somewhat uncomfortable with my church&#039;s emphasis on numbers) uses their facilities throughout the week.  Mind you, not the sanctuary, but the classrooms and gymnasium are used throughout the week for a home school co-op, Bible studies, and the seniors in our area.  They do what you mentioned, use the building as a tool. 

I am woefully ignorant when it comes to the the worship conditions of our Chinese brethren.  I have always imagined it was like I commented above, worshiping God is the focus.  Thinking about buildings might seem silly to them...they have to contend with simply seeking a safe place to worship.  But if they could have a nice safe building, no matter how modest, to call their own, wouldn&#039;t that be a blessing? But what I view as a blessing, they might view as an extravagance that isn&#039;t necessary for the vitality of their worship.  My lens is a purely western one.  Sometimes I&#039;m more a product of my environment than a reflection of my God.

Now, I am not an anti-Western person, I&#039;m tired of that whole mentality of bashing my country, but you are right when you mention that their spiritual growth puts us to shame.  We have the idols of excess and comfort to overcome, among a myriad of others.  I&#039;m afraid we have taken our blessings for granted in this country. And we have completely forgotten our God.  Truly, this is becoming a godless nation.  Some can take me to task for that, but the evidence is irrefutable.  Anyway, when it comes to buildings, it&#039;s all about comfort and prestige in some cases.  The church I mentioned in my first comment, the one that grew and got a bigger facility...it was embarrassing. We had guest speakers from our denomination coming just to preach in our new complex.  The sermons usually started out something like this:  &quot;It is such a blessing to be here.  God has richly blessed you with this wonderful new building...&quot; Truly, it got uncomfortable.  (Think Bellvue Baptist Church in Memphis, TN, I&#039;m sure you can Google it...our &#039;remodel&#039; was fashioned after that.) 

Are those types of buildings necessary?  Absolutely not.  They are a distraction, in my opinion.  

But, how did God feel about Solomon&#039;s temple?  Was he pleased?  Was it excessive?  Did people meet inside it enough?  I always thought it was built so ornately so as to glorify God (and God was the master architect, right?)  Is that the case with these mega churches?  I wonder...

Please do post those additional articles.  I value your opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About buildings being a necessity, I guess I was thinking about when it rains&#8230;:)  I haven&#8217;t thought about it the way you put it.  It does seem wasteful to have such large buildings/complexes that aren&#8217;t being used.  However, my mega church back home (yes, I&#8217;m somewhat uncomfortable with my church&#8217;s emphasis on numbers) uses their facilities throughout the week.  Mind you, not the sanctuary, but the classrooms and gymnasium are used throughout the week for a home school co-op, Bible studies, and the seniors in our area.  They do what you mentioned, use the building as a tool. </p>
<p>I am woefully ignorant when it comes to the the worship conditions of our Chinese brethren.  I have always imagined it was like I commented above, worshiping God is the focus.  Thinking about buildings might seem silly to them&#8230;they have to contend with simply seeking a safe place to worship.  But if they could have a nice safe building, no matter how modest, to call their own, wouldn&#8217;t that be a blessing? But what I view as a blessing, they might view as an extravagance that isn&#8217;t necessary for the vitality of their worship.  My lens is a purely western one.  Sometimes I&#8217;m more a product of my environment than a reflection of my God.</p>
<p>Now, I am not an anti-Western person, I&#8217;m tired of that whole mentality of bashing my country, but you are right when you mention that their spiritual growth puts us to shame.  We have the idols of excess and comfort to overcome, among a myriad of others.  I&#8217;m afraid we have taken our blessings for granted in this country. And we have completely forgotten our God.  Truly, this is becoming a godless nation.  Some can take me to task for that, but the evidence is irrefutable.  Anyway, when it comes to buildings, it&#8217;s all about comfort and prestige in some cases.  The church I mentioned in my first comment, the one that grew and got a bigger facility&#8230;it was embarrassing. We had guest speakers from our denomination coming just to preach in our new complex.  The sermons usually started out something like this:  &#8220;It is such a blessing to be here.  God has richly blessed you with this wonderful new building&#8230;&#8221; Truly, it got uncomfortable.  (Think Bellvue Baptist Church in Memphis, TN, I&#8217;m sure you can Google it&#8230;our &#8216;remodel&#8217; was fashioned after that.) </p>
<p>Are those types of buildings necessary?  Absolutely not.  They are a distraction, in my opinion.  </p>
<p>But, how did God feel about Solomon&#8217;s temple?  Was he pleased?  Was it excessive?  Did people meet inside it enough?  I always thought it was built so ornately so as to glorify God (and God was the master architect, right?)  Is that the case with these mega churches?  I wonder&#8230;</p>
<p>Please do post those additional articles.  I value your opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2007/05/16/edifice-complex-an-unhealthy-obsession/comment-page-1/#comment-3282</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 12:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=48#comment-3282</guid>
		<description>Lynn &amp; Tom, thanks for thinking out loud with me! Some may find it difficult or uncomfortable to do this, but I think it&#039;s very helpful to work through issues like these together as brothers and sisters in Christ.
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;Are Buildings Necessary?&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;I&#039;m not sure that I could agree with you, Lynn, that &quot;buildings are a necessity.&quot; In most settings that I have witnessed, perhaps 99.99% of the church buildings that we build, most are used only a couple of hours a week. It&#039;s a huge waste of resources: cavernous &quot;worship centers&quot; with parking lots (especially in America), to be used for a miniscule 4â€“6 hours out of a 168-hour week. That&#039;s really poor stewardship, isn&#039;t it? Even here in Britain, we have these large, ornate chapels and churches built to last for a thousand years or more, and only a handful of people gather in them each Sunday for two or three hours at best. From my perspective, buildings may be a tool (if fully utilized in Christian ministries like feeding the hungry, teaching/caring for children, etc), but I wouldn&#039;t say that they are a necessity for the ekklesia or gathering of God&#039;s people. Our Chinese brothers and sisters simply do not have such luxuries and yet their spiritual growth puts the West to shame.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rather than responding to your other questions in this comment section, I&#039;m going to post two additional articles: &quot;What about teaching?&quot; and &quot;How did the early church handle its rapid growth?&quot; I hope you don&#039;t mind.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynn &#038; Tom, thanks for thinking out loud with me! Some may find it difficult or uncomfortable to do this, but I think it&#8217;s very helpful to work through issues like these together as brothers and sisters in Christ.</p>
<p><b>Are Buildings Necessary?</b></p>
</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that I could agree with you, Lynn, that &#8220;buildings are a necessity.&#8221; In most settings that I have witnessed, perhaps 99.99% of the church buildings that we build, most are used only a couple of hours a week. It&#8217;s a huge waste of resources: cavernous &#8220;worship centers&#8221; with parking lots (especially in America), to be used for a miniscule 4â€“6 hours out of a 168-hour week. That&#8217;s really poor stewardship, isn&#8217;t it? Even here in Britain, we have these large, ornate chapels and churches built to last for a thousand years or more, and only a handful of people gather in them each Sunday for two or three hours at best. From my perspective, buildings may be a tool (if fully utilized in Christian ministries like feeding the hungry, teaching/caring for children, etc), but I wouldn&#8217;t say that they are a necessity for the ekklesia or gathering of God&#8217;s people. Our Chinese brothers and sisters simply do not have such luxuries and yet their spiritual growth puts the West to shame.</p>
<p>Rather than responding to your other questions in this comment section, I&#8217;m going to post two additional articles: &#8220;What about teaching?&#8221; and &#8220;How did the early church handle its rapid growth?&#8221; I hope you don&#8217;t mind.</p>
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		<title>By: The Thin Edge of the Wedge &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teaching in the ekklesia?</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2007/05/16/edifice-complex-an-unhealthy-obsession/comment-page-1/#comment-3281</link>
		<dc:creator>The Thin Edge of the Wedge &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teaching in the ekklesia?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 12:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=48#comment-3281</guid>
		<description>[...] About Me       &#171; Edifice Complex: An Unhealthy Obsession       May 17 2007 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] About Me       &laquo; Edifice Complex: An Unhealthy Obsession       May 17 2007 [...]</p>
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