Comments on: Why I No Longer Celebrate Christmas :: Part 2

By: Rusty

Rusty — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:54:48 +0000

Not defensive at all, just making points. I started calling you Mr. Lollar because I started thinking it was probably a little disrespective (is that a word) to speak to you on a first name basis. Did not call you a dispensationalist, just said it sounded dispensationalist, but I would guess you are at least modified. Anyways you end by saying is there a cultural mandate in the bible and that is clear from Gen 1. So it is in scripture. Now does Christ and the apostles talk about it and I have indicated that it is implied. I don’t not believe that was done away with in the new as many do. Friend, I am not being defensive when I say that you needing “ME” to give you something is super pious. Again the church did not start with me and I would be a fool not to consider the thoughts of those who have gone before us and finished the race strong. I would also be very arrogant to think that I could provide better insight into certain things then say an Edwards, Kuyper, or any other great man or woman God has given the church. Finally, I don’t understand you statement about only needing explicit commands on the really big things, if so where is the explicit Trinity. I am sure you will think this is defensive as well, but it is not I am sitting in my home about to eat an egg sandwhich and head to work. This is just a couple of brothers going back and forth. I feel Rom. 14:1 is at play here and if I am the weaker brother on this (which I don’t think and you don’t think you are, but at least if not both of us are wrong on this issue) then I ask for you and others to bare with my failings (Rom. 15) and to forgive. Hey you know not everything we write sounds like we meant it to. Good Day.

By: Bill Lollar

Bill Lollar — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:09:51 +0000

Rusty, you raised the point about the “culture mandate” (Comment #5) and I responded by saying (C6) that one would need biblical principles before trying to Christianize our culture (aka the church “redeeming…a pagan holiday”). Then (C7) you dropped a couple of names—Warfield and Wilson—in addition to mentioning Genesis 1 and the biblical narrative that describes Israel’s occupation of the Promised Land as support (at least that’s how I took it) for your viewpoint.

When I asked for further clarification (C8), you referenced Kuyper (C9) as “a good place to start when talking about dominion.” But I wanted to hear from you, Rusty (C10), not Warfield or Wilson or Kuyper; and I simply wanted you to articulate a New Testament foundation for this thing you call “the culture mandate.” It seems to me that IF such a clear mandate exists, Jesus or the apostolic writers would have mentioned it, but I only commented that I couldn’t recall anything from those sources. Obviously I have struck a sensitive nerve, because you have now gotten all uptight (C11), shifting from “Bill” to “Mr. Lollar,” accusing me of being “super pious” and “pretty dispensational” and “proof texting.”

No, I don’t require explicit biblical commands for everything. Just the really big things, like cultural mandates. Again, you started all this by saying, “…is that not what the culture mandate is all about. To go about taking dominion over all, claiming it for the glory of God, redeeming it.” And I’m asking, “What cultural mandate are you talking about?” Is there one in the Bible? Are we talking about the theonomic interpretations of Bahnsen or Rushdoony? I’m not sure why you seem so defensive?

By: Rusty

Rusty — Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:27:44 +0000

Mr. Lollar, no disrespect to you either, but the church did not start with you or I. It is foolish not to learn from those who have gone before us. As for that God told us in Jeremiah 6:16 to listen to those who have gone before us. Yes, we need to check everything with scripture, I know that, but please don’t be super pious and say I need to know where in scripture “YOU” get this from. Also, it sounds pretty dispensational to say “Jesus or the apostles”, what you should ask is where is this taught in scripture as it is all God’s word (which I am sure you would affirm) that all works together.

Nevertheless, to answer your question, 1 Cor. 10:31 is a good place to start. Colossians 1:16 also points us in this direction. The Sermon on the Mount has some points that help in this area as well. In Ch. 5 Jesus says He did not come to do away with the Law. In Ch. 5:38:42 also has helped me with this idea. However, I have come to find out tonight that I in some ways know you and have gained some understanding into some of the positions you hold, so I guess we are just going to disagree on this. A quick question before ending this post. Mr. Lollar, do you always look for explicit commands from scripture on everything? I hope that you would certainly allow for some implicit instruction. Not that you wouldn’t, but you worried me a little when it sounded like you went proof texting. Thanks again for the time and good luck with the sausage.

By: Bill Lollar

Bill Lollar — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:04:27 +0000

No disrespect to Kuyper, but I would much prefer knowing where YOU see this dominion mandate in the Scriptures and how it’s manifested in our Christian journey? Maybe my mind is just not working today, but I’m having a difficult time thinking of specific instances where Jesus or the apostles taught the concept.

By: Rusty

Rusty — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:30:14 +0000

Abraham Kuyper’s life is a good place to start when talking about dominion. He spoke of Christ being Lord of all, saying that Christ does not see one area of life that He does not say I am Lord of that as well. Anyways, I do not mean by dominion some emergent idea of taking pagan ideas and just adding Christ to them while retaining pagan practices. Rather, to make something distinctly Christian. I think that Christian’s would do the Church well if it better understood the Great Commission and the Great Cultural Mandate as working together rather than one excluded from the other. You know when were regenrated I often ask to what, and then I think to the original relationship Adam had with God, and so I say what did God tell Adam to do in that relationship and well Gen 1:28 is it. So that is where I am coming from. By the way what does Bapitizing “Nations” really mean? Thanks for the insight on the sight. I also agree that simplistic is the best route, you know the old Apple strategy. Thanks again. Soli Deo Gloria

By: Bill Lollar

Bill Lollar — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:41:55 +0000

Rusty, please forgive my jumping to conclusions. I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth, but when you used the phrases culture mandate and redeeming a pagan holiday and taking dominion so close together, I equated that with Constantine’s forced baptism of his troops and other uses of power to Christianize the Roman Empire. It’s one thing to exercise dominion in the sense of “taking responsibility” for God’s gracious gifts in creation, but quite another to make a “silk purse out of a sow’s ear” (to use an old Southern expression) in the case of pagan holidays and rituals.

I don’t know what it means to redeem other things affected by the Fall, so perhaps you could explain. Are you talking about environmental issues like conservation of natural resources? Recycling?

Thanks for visiting my blog and leaving your comments, Rusty! Someone gave me some good advice on a new template for Wordpress, which has required a little tweaking, but I’m really liking the minimalist view and I love how much “lighter” the site appears. It’s much faster loading, too. Glad you like it!