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	<title>Comments on: Anglican Bishop compares global warming opponents to incestuous Austrian father</title>
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	<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/</link>
	<description>Walking in the freedom and simplicity of God&#039;s love!</description>
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		<title>By: Chris Roberts</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-935</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 08:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am in agreement with you here, Bill. My main concern in this, as in every other thing in our Christian lives, is that we should try, test, prove all things for ourselves, not just accept as fact things that are told us. I&#039;ve found myself in trouble many times in the past through applying that principle, but I&#039;m too old to change now! But when we occasionally (and we will) reach differing conclusions to our fellow believers, that doesn&#039;t put us beyond the pale or make us enemies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in agreement with you here, Bill. My main concern in this, as in every other thing in our Christian lives, is that we should try, test, prove all things for ourselves, not just accept as fact things that are told us. I&#8217;ve found myself in trouble many times in the past through applying that principle, but I&#8217;m too old to change now! But when we occasionally (and we will) reach differing conclusions to our fellow believers, that doesn&#8217;t put us beyond the pale or make us enemies.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lollar</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-934</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Lollar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Tim:&lt;/b&gt; That&#039;s my point exactly, that we should not depend upon second-hand or third-hand information (where I come from, we call that &quot;gossip&quot;) to make such sweeping judgments or encourage others to do the same. I wrote another article on &lt;a&gt;&quot;Christian Boycotts: Sitting in Judgment on Unbelievers&quot;&lt;/a&gt; that speaks to this from a biblical viewpoint.

&lt;b&gt;Maggie:&lt;/b&gt; Just google &quot;Christian Boycott&quot; and you&#039;ll discover dozens of Christian activist groups. I wouldn&#039;t accuse all groups of intentionally publishing &quot;untrue allegations&quot; as you put it, but they do spend a great deal of time pushing boycotts, calling Christians to action on the basis of their own research, and raising money to fund these religio-political crusades. And I&#039;m questioning whether we should put the reputation of Christ and the Church on the line for second-hand information that (a) may be an exaggeration or misinterpretation of the facts, or (b) could be an isolated incident or mistake that these corporations (like Starbucks) are trying very hard to correct.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Tim:</b> That&#8217;s my point exactly, that we should not depend upon second-hand or third-hand information (where I come from, we call that &#8220;gossip&#8221;) to make such sweeping judgments or encourage others to do the same. I wrote another article on <a>&#8220;Christian Boycotts: Sitting in Judgment on Unbelievers&#8221;</a> that speaks to this from a biblical viewpoint.</p>
<p><b>Maggie:</b> Just google &#8220;Christian Boycott&#8221; and you&#8217;ll discover dozens of Christian activist groups. I wouldn&#8217;t accuse all groups of intentionally publishing &#8220;untrue allegations&#8221; as you put it, but they do spend a great deal of time pushing boycotts, calling Christians to action on the basis of their own research, and raising money to fund these religio-political crusades. And I&#8217;m questioning whether we should put the reputation of Christ and the Church on the line for second-hand information that (a) may be an exaggeration or misinterpretation of the facts, or (b) could be an isolated incident or mistake that these corporations (like Starbucks) are trying very hard to correct.</p>
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		<title>By: maggie hughes</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-933</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maggie hughes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bill
I would be interested to know who these numerous Christian agencies are whose main ministry is targetting companies with untrue allegations.  I am not aware of who they are
Maggie]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill<br />
I would be interested to know who these numerous Christian agencies are whose main ministry is targetting companies with untrue allegations.  I am not aware of who they are<br />
Maggie</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Phipps</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Phipps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the environment issue there is still debate not so much on whether global warming is happening but rather whether mankind can have any significant influence on it.  Many &#039;greenhouse&#039; gases are produced by our planet naturally so even if we completely cut our CO2 (and other) emissions global warming could still continue because the earth goes through natural cycles of heating and cooling.  Unfortunately the environment seems to be an issue that is used by the government for political ends and revenue generation by supposedly green taxes.

One example of the eco-nonsense being pushed is the introduction of RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) in regard to the manufacture of electronic equipment.  Leaded solder has been banned from all new electronic devices with certain exemptions being granted e.g. for military use due to reliability concerns.  It is questionable whether leaded solder going into landfill is harmful in the first place but that aside, the use of lead-free solder is making and will continue to make our electronics less reliable because lead-free solder is more brittle and is also susceptible to the spontaneous growth of tin whiskers which can cause microscopic short circuits.  The end result is that the environment is worse off because the less reliable equipment will have to be replaced more often creating more waste for landfill as despite any recycling efforts a good amount of electronics waste still goes into landfill.  Most consumer electronics these days is so cheap to buy due to cheap labour manufacturing in the far east that it is not economical to have repaired so instead it is discarded when it fails.

I absolutely agree that we please God when we make right choices in what we purchase etc.  When we listen a preacher we should read the Word for ourselves to ensure that what is preached is biblically correct.  In the same manner, when we are told that we ought not buy a certain manufacturer&#039;s product because it is not ethically produced we should be encouraged to investigate for ourselves so that we can make a personal decision according to our God given conscience rather than doing so because we are told to by the powers that be (whether that is the church or the government).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the environment issue there is still debate not so much on whether global warming is happening but rather whether mankind can have any significant influence on it.  Many &#8216;greenhouse&#8217; gases are produced by our planet naturally so even if we completely cut our CO2 (and other) emissions global warming could still continue because the earth goes through natural cycles of heating and cooling.  Unfortunately the environment seems to be an issue that is used by the government for political ends and revenue generation by supposedly green taxes.</p>
<p>One example of the eco-nonsense being pushed is the introduction of RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) in regard to the manufacture of electronic equipment.  Leaded solder has been banned from all new electronic devices with certain exemptions being granted e.g. for military use due to reliability concerns.  It is questionable whether leaded solder going into landfill is harmful in the first place but that aside, the use of lead-free solder is making and will continue to make our electronics less reliable because lead-free solder is more brittle and is also susceptible to the spontaneous growth of tin whiskers which can cause microscopic short circuits.  The end result is that the environment is worse off because the less reliable equipment will have to be replaced more often creating more waste for landfill as despite any recycling efforts a good amount of electronics waste still goes into landfill.  Most consumer electronics these days is so cheap to buy due to cheap labour manufacturing in the far east that it is not economical to have repaired so instead it is discarded when it fails.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree that we please God when we make right choices in what we purchase etc.  When we listen a preacher we should read the Word for ourselves to ensure that what is preached is biblically correct.  In the same manner, when we are told that we ought not buy a certain manufacturer&#8217;s product because it is not ethically produced we should be encouraged to investigate for ourselves so that we can make a personal decision according to our God given conscience rather than doing so because we are told to by the powers that be (whether that is the church or the government).</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lollar</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-931</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Lollar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 12:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-931</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Maggie:&lt;/b&gt; I certainly appreciate the salient points of your argumentâ€¦well stated, by the way! If we know for certain (versus rumor or third-party information) that injustice or oppression has played a key role in the production of goods and services, then I would personally endorse purchasing similar goods/services from alternative sources or else do without them altogether. In other words, I would quit eating bananas if there was only one source that employed slave labor to harvest their crops.

Unfortunately, there are numerous &quot;Christian&quot; agencies around the world that focus their entire &quot;ministry&quot; on targeting these sorts of abuses and we&#039;re just supposed to take their word for it? Starbucks has been on these sorts of &quot;hit lists&quot; for years, yet no one asks about the impact it would have on coffee growers if Starbucks suddenly went out of business. And no one ever seems to read &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/csrreport/Coffee_Report_PDF_FY07.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Starbucks&#039; annual Corporate Social Responsibility reports&lt;/a&gt; outlining their commitment to make a positive impact in the coffee-growing communities around the world. They belong to such agencies as Conservation International, Save the Children, Earthwatch, African Wildlife Foundation, and MercyCorps: sounds like they take these things seriously.

The same thing goes for environmental issues. Everyone in the West (who have all sorts of money to spend on alternative energy sources) wants to make it illegal for developing countries to burn coal, which many of these countries have in abundance, simply because of the &quot;supposed&quot; contribution to greenhouse gases and human-induced climate changeâ€”a theory, at best, that may soon collapse as more and more scientists question the validity of the underlying assumptions. How can global restrictions on CO2 emissions bless the poorest nations and reflect the kindness/love/justice of God when they can&#039;t flip a light switch unless we allow them to generate electricity with coal-powered plants?

So I worry that Christians are being led to &quot;bear false witness&quot; in these sorts of discussions about where to shop, what to buy, etcetera. Surely that&#039;s a form of injustice and oppression that we should avoid as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Maggie:</b> I certainly appreciate the salient points of your argumentâ€¦well stated, by the way! If we know for certain (versus rumor or third-party information) that injustice or oppression has played a key role in the production of goods and services, then I would personally endorse purchasing similar goods/services from alternative sources or else do without them altogether. In other words, I would quit eating bananas if there was only one source that employed slave labor to harvest their crops.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, there are numerous &#8220;Christian&#8221; agencies around the world that focus their entire &#8220;ministry&#8221; on targeting these sorts of abuses and we&#8217;re just supposed to take their word for it? Starbucks has been on these sorts of &#8220;hit lists&#8221; for years, yet no one asks about the impact it would have on coffee growers if Starbucks suddenly went out of business. And no one ever seems to read <a href="http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/csrreport/Coffee_Report_PDF_FY07.pdf" rel="nofollow">Starbucks&#8217; annual Corporate Social Responsibility reports</a> outlining their commitment to make a positive impact in the coffee-growing communities around the world. They belong to such agencies as Conservation International, Save the Children, Earthwatch, African Wildlife Foundation, and MercyCorps: sounds like they take these things seriously.</p>
<p>The same thing goes for environmental issues. Everyone in the West (who have all sorts of money to spend on alternative energy sources) wants to make it illegal for developing countries to burn coal, which many of these countries have in abundance, simply because of the &#8220;supposed&#8221; contribution to greenhouse gases and human-induced climate changeâ€”a theory, at best, that may soon collapse as more and more scientists question the validity of the underlying assumptions. How can global restrictions on CO2 emissions bless the poorest nations and reflect the kindness/love/justice of God when they can&#8217;t flip a light switch unless we allow them to generate electricity with coal-powered plants?</p>
<p>So I worry that Christians are being led to &#8220;bear false witness&#8221; in these sorts of discussions about where to shop, what to buy, etcetera. Surely that&#8217;s a form of injustice and oppression that we should avoid as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie Hughes</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-930</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maggie Hughes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-930</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The great commission is to make disciples not save souls.  If Jesus is Lord of all our lives then although we are free to choose how we live, our love  for God surely makes us want to do things that bless other people rather than hurt them.  If I have a choice as to whether to buy something for which someone has been well treated and fairly  paid or to buy something which has involved unjust practices and oppression surely my love for God and my neighbour would weight my choice in favour of the former.  Its not a matter of imposing these things on others whether believers or not but on informing them of the alternatives that we have as consumers.  I think God would want us to to do all we can to promote His values of kindness and justice.  The same goes for environmental issues.  If the way I live is making life more intolerable for the poor and I am being greedy in my use of resources I can&#039;t see that this is compatible with  loving our neighbour as ourselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The great commission is to make disciples not save souls.  If Jesus is Lord of all our lives then although we are free to choose how we live, our love  for God surely makes us want to do things that bless other people rather than hurt them.  If I have a choice as to whether to buy something for which someone has been well treated and fairly  paid or to buy something which has involved unjust practices and oppression surely my love for God and my neighbour would weight my choice in favour of the former.  Its not a matter of imposing these things on others whether believers or not but on informing them of the alternatives that we have as consumers.  I think God would want us to to do all we can to promote His values of kindness and justice.  The same goes for environmental issues.  If the way I live is making life more intolerable for the poor and I am being greedy in my use of resources I can&#8217;t see that this is compatible with  loving our neighbour as ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom M.</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-929</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 01:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-929</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tolerance is something I think about a lot; especially as a Christian.  It is one thing for the right to struggle with tolerance, but it is especially worrisome to me when leftist movements can&#039;t tolerate discourse either.  The whole &quot;if you can&#039;t come to grips with the truth then you&#039;re a delusional idiot&quot; logic of today&#039;s green movement worries me.

Then again, this is a good window for the Church to be a place of welcome and diversity.  That is, if we don&#039;t fall in line with the mainstream lest we offend someone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tolerance is something I think about a lot; especially as a Christian.  It is one thing for the right to struggle with tolerance, but it is especially worrisome to me when leftist movements can&#8217;t tolerate discourse either.  The whole &#8220;if you can&#8217;t come to grips with the truth then you&#8217;re a delusional idiot&#8221; logic of today&#8217;s green movement worries me.</p>
<p>Then again, this is a good window for the Church to be a place of welcome and diversity.  That is, if we don&#8217;t fall in line with the mainstream lest we offend someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Lollar</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-928</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill Lollar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-928</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Glad you&#039;re still hanging around these parts, Chris. I&#039;m treading on holy ground for a lot of good friends here in the UK, but I think it&#039;s a huge distraction (like the Christian boycotts and activism in America) from what God has called the church to do and be. Can you imagine Jesus or even Paul insisting on &quot;fair trade&quot; coffee for the gatherings of the ekklesia?

Welcome to my blog, Tim! Glad to have you weighing in, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you&#8217;re still hanging around these parts, Chris. I&#8217;m treading on holy ground for a lot of good friends here in the UK, but I think it&#8217;s a huge distraction (like the Christian boycotts and activism in America) from what God has called the church to do and be. Can you imagine Jesus or even Paul insisting on &#8220;fair trade&#8221; coffee for the gatherings of the ekklesia?</p>
<p>Welcome to my blog, Tim! Glad to have you weighing in, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Phipps</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-927</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim Phipps]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-927</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to say that I also agree with your viewpoint on this.  I am tired of hearing all the eco-nonsense on the news and don&#039;t need to hear more of it when I go to church.  Often the arguments put forward for green and fair-trade issues are simplistic at best.  It should be for the individual to decide whether or not to purchase &#039;ecologically sound&#039; or &#039;fair trade&#039; products according to their conscience and proper investigation into the facts rather than acting on hearsay.

Let&#039;s remember that our main thing as Christians is to fulfil the Great Commission which involves seeing souls saved not saving the planet!  I think many Christians who are caught up on the eco bandwagon have forgotten about the song &#039;He&#039;s got the whole world in His hands&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that I also agree with your viewpoint on this.  I am tired of hearing all the eco-nonsense on the news and don&#8217;t need to hear more of it when I go to church.  Often the arguments put forward for green and fair-trade issues are simplistic at best.  It should be for the individual to decide whether or not to purchase &#8216;ecologically sound&#8217; or &#8216;fair trade&#8217; products according to their conscience and proper investigation into the facts rather than acting on hearsay.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s remember that our main thing as Christians is to fulfil the Great Commission which involves seeing souls saved not saving the planet!  I think many Christians who are caught up on the eco bandwagon have forgotten about the song &#8216;He&#8217;s got the whole world in His hands&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Roberts</title>
		<link>http://thin-edge.org/2008/06/08/anglican-bishop-compares-global-warming-opponents-to-incestuous-austrian-father/#comment-926</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 21:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thin-edge.org/?p=343#comment-926</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Got to say it, Bill, this is one subject (not the only one) where you and I see eye to eye. The idea of an Evangelical big brother judging me on meats, drinks, and holy days makes the hairs on my neck stand up. This is a topic that seems more important to a significant proportion of Evangelicals today than reaching lost men and women with the good news of Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. I have no wish to be uncharitable to those who I consider my brothers and sisters in Christ, but this, as you quite rightly say, is for the conscience of the individual not the doctrines of the Church.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got to say it, Bill, this is one subject (not the only one) where you and I see eye to eye. The idea of an Evangelical big brother judging me on meats, drinks, and holy days makes the hairs on my neck stand up. This is a topic that seems more important to a significant proportion of Evangelicals today than reaching lost men and women with the good news of Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. I have no wish to be uncharitable to those who I consider my brothers and sisters in Christ, but this, as you quite rightly say, is for the conscience of the individual not the doctrines of the Church.</p>
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